Thinking & Drinking

by Shaker SarahMC

[Hello! I want to thank Liss for inviting me to guest blog. I love Shakesville and am honored to be featured.]

As a loyal Jezebel reader, commenter, and member of the Jezebel "community," I was excited when I heard that Moe Tkacik and Tracie "Slut Machine" Egan, two Jezebel bloggers, would appear on Lizz Winstead’s show, Thinking and Drinking, last week. (Winstead, with Madeleine Smithberg, created The Daily Show.) T&D is Lizz Winstead's weekly interview show, and part of Shoot the Messenger, a comedy troupe and live sketch show in New York City. According to the announcement on Jezebel, the women expected to discuss feminism, sex, politics and blogging.

The women engaged in way more drinking than thinking, and although parts of the interview were funny and light-hearted, the two said a lot of things that reflect poorly on themselves and their employer, and that embarrassed me and a lot other "Jezzies." Unfortunately, we still live in a world where one woman's behavior is viewed as representative of all women's behavior, and Moe and Tracie, who were at minimum representing the Jezebel community, did a disservice to young women, "third wavers," and Jezebels in particular, with their appearance at T&D.

These Jezebels recommended birth control methods:

Moe: Pulling out always works for me.

Tracie: And I know it's an irresponsible thing to day, but it's [pulling out] The Most Fun Way Not To Get Pregnant.

The Jezebels on sex with total strangers:

Tracie: People are always saying it's not safe to go home with strange men, blah, blah blah, like Mr. Goodbar whatever.

Moe: What's gonna happen?

Lizz You could get raped.

Moe: That's happening too, but you live through that.

Lizz: Sometimes you don't.

Moe: That's true if they have weapons."

The Jezebels define the "rapists of our generation."

Tracie: I live in Williamsburg, there aren't very assertive men there.

Moe: The thing about the rapists of our generation, is that they all use drugs, they all have some sort of drug they use on you, so it's good to feel, and I don't know if this has happed to me or if I just drink too much...

Moe: It's really hard to prosecute them [rapists], so you should try to avoid them at all costs.

Tracie: I once paid someone to rape me once.

Tracie: Well, I didn't pay for it, I had a magazine pay for it.

Tracie: I moved here when I was 18 and you think you would encounter more rapists in a big city like this, but, I don't know, I just haven't.

Moe on [date rape/sexual] regret:

Moe: I guess, I like, regret being date raped."

Moe: It seems like in terms of bad sexual experiences, that you have, the worst ones are in, always seem to be in countries where sex is not accepted. That is the good thing about New York, I've never has any problems with anyone here.

Moe: I guess third guy, I ever had sex with, date raped me, and I got very mad at him, but I wasn't gonna fucking like turn him in to the police and fucking go through shit.

Lizz interrupts: Why not, you see that's the problem, why not, I am just curious?

Moe: Because it was a load of trouble and I had better things to do, like drinking more.

Tracie on why she has not been raped:

Tracie: I think it has to do with the fact that I am like, smart.

Tracie: I don't hang around with frat guys.

Moe on how she felt about her rapist:

Moe: I always felt very like, safe around this guy even after he date raped me.

Moe on what women can take home from reading their blogs:

Moe: If any of you guys use the pullout method, but you read you know, anything I wrote about Ben Bernanke, or you know, what ever, at least y'll go to the grave with your syphilis, slightly informed, that's all I care about.

They came off as careless, thoughtless, and at some points, just plain stupid. They may try to pass off their offensive remarks as jokes, or drunken blathering, but alcohol doesn't make people say things they're not thinking whilst sober. It just lowers inhibitions. And it's disturbing to realize that two prominent bloggers for a women's website actually harbor such ignorant, negative attitudes towards women and ignorant attitudes about rape.

Moe and Tracie are portrayed as feminists. That is partly Lizz Winstead's fault, of course, as she basically marketed the interview as a conversation with two young feminists. I don't consider Jezebel a "feminist blog," per se. It's a blog that caters to women, and most of the bloggers on the site consider themselves feminists. I feel free at Jezebel to be my feminist self, among a sea of hundreds of other awesome feminists (and non-feminist folks) who regularly comment.

However, Moe has made it clear on numerous occasions that she doesn't consider herself a feminist. I find her style unintelligible now and then, but she does seem to have a pro-woman worldview (most of the time). Other times, I get the feeling she thinks of herself as being "above it all"—"it all" being Other Women.

For reference, see: here.

At T&D, Moe said she doesn't call herself a feminist because she doesn't want to turn guys off. As I said in the comments section of Jezebel's T&D post, I'm a loud and proud feminist and my boyfriend still wants to have sex with me! I guess it all depends on whether you're looking for quality or quantity.

Tracie calls herself a feminist, but it's hard to figure out what feminism means to her. It seems like she uses the word "feminism" when it suits her and her agenda. She wants to be able to have no-strings-attached sex with multiple partners; feminism allows her that freedom, so she calls herself a feminist. And there is nothing wrong with wanting that freedom, or taking advantage of it! But feminism is about more than that.

Tracie is a talented, engaging writer, but she often displays disregard for other people. I was disgusted, but not that surprised by her comments on rape in the interview, as they are in line with those expressed in a couple of her posts on Jezebel.

In one, she said Roman Polanski's 13-year-old rape victim may not have been so innocent, because she was familiar with drugs. Most readers were understandably outraged. In a follow-up post, Tracie remarked that those who were upset by the post are just unhip and not third-wave like she is. She even called Gloria Steinem a "dinosaur" at one point during the Winstead interview.

Feminists (including many Jezebel readers) work to make society take issues like rape and sexual exploitation seriously. Moe and Tracie's behavior undermines that.

They are celebrated and admired by many of their readers, particularly young (often underage) women. I know that many commenters at Jezebel, myself included, value the opportunity Jezebel gives us to open up about our lives and experiences in a very intimate way. We feel safe discussing eating disorders, the deaths of parents, sexual assault, body image, and so many other things we're not often permitted to discuss honestly in our real lives. It hurts to realize that two of the site's own editors don't respect us the way we respect each other, and may even think we're stupid.